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9max bubble sb vs bb pound on the other big stack?

Discussion in 'Hand analysis' started by hemme, Sep 19, 2018.

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  1. hemme

    hemme New Member

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    Hey guys

    Any thoughts on when to be extra aggro vs roughly equal stacks. How short should the shortstack be to make it 'safer' to push against other players? This is very general, I know, but would like to discuss some considerations.

    Best
    Hemme

    888Poker, $2.70 + $0.30 - Hold'em No Limit - 150/300 (30 ante) - 4 players
    Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

    betatron19 (UTG): 2,235 (7 bb)
    Jedimaster7 (BU): 2,757 (9 bb)
    Krista999 (SB): 4,500 (15 bb)
    medas1 (BB): 4,008 (13 bb)

    Pre-Flop: (570) Hero (Krista999) is SB with 6 8
    2 players fold, Krista999 (SB) folds, medas1 mashes the A button
     
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  2. lappis

    lappis New Member

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    I think that we should push a lot hands from when opening from SB. There are two smaller stacks and ICM effect is strong, villain must be very tight from the big blind even if he knows that you shove very wide. Pushing here should be profitable, unless villain tends to call too wide.

    So i checked this spot with HRC, and it says you should push any two cards. pokeranalysis.jpg
    And villains optimal calling range looks like this.
    pokercallingbb.jpg
    Quite a surprise that AQs would be call but AKo fold.

    86o starts to be break-even push if villain calls with 15% range, which means A5s+, A9o+, KJo+, K9s+, QJs and 55+. So if villain calls wider than that range, 86o starts to be -EV.

    If you have lot of information about your opponent, let's say that he is very nitty and does not try to re-steal almost at all we could argue about other lines, limping or min-raising. But yeah, i think in these spots you want to play pretty straightforward, not recommending any other than push or fold in these situations.
     
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  3. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    You can mix in some limps or small raises. Versus some nits I would use small raise but not usually versus competent opponent. Obviously if we are versus player that has any idea of ICM shoving will be very profitable as pointed out by lappis.

    So as default I would be mainly shoving from SB and apply max ICM tax. Then possibly mixing some limps with weaker holdings and some big pockets as trap.
     
  4. hemme

    hemme New Member

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    Thanks guys. It makes very good sense.

    In which situations/opponent types would it make sense to limp, only ultra passive?

    Best
    hemme
     
  5. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Well to be honest in this hand spot versus good player its probably best to just shove always as all hands are so clearly +EV as shoves. But idea of limping in general is to be able to play wider range of hands. So you can have some of more marginal shove hands or -EV shove hands in limp range that you are planning to fold to shove. Then some strong hands that are strong enough to induce action. In this spot those would be just big pockets.
     
  6. hemme

    hemme New Member

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    Yeah, ok.

    Wouldn't min-raising maintain some fold equity with weak hands? And min-raise call with big hands?
     
  7. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Sure but it also increase profitability of 3bet shoves and good player will tend to defend decently wide because of good price and position. So if we cant assume much fold equity with small raise it becomes questionable to make that raise with these shallow stacks. So sure nice when big hands build pot but not as nice with weak hands.

    These are also very opponent and stack depth dependent spots. E.g. if we are 20bb deep there is lot more space to limp-call versus normal sort of 3bb raise or limp-shove. So lets say we are versus aggro villain who like to 3bet lot and raise versus our limp. If we have e.g. 55 we can open shove it profitably in most stack setups. But versus aggro opponent its also nice as limp-shove to get better risk:reward for shove. Or if we have 89s we might not want to shove 20bb and getting shoved after raise would be nasty. So limp-call might be good option.

    Not saying raising small cant be optimal. Many players are folding too much to even small 2-2.5bb raises in BvB so it can be clearly optimal in many cases.
     
    #7 Ghaleon, Sep 21, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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