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A8o MP3 play - thought process 45 man early stages

Discussion in 'Hand analysis' started by hayatekirino, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. hayatekirino

    hayatekirino Member

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    PokerStars - 10/20 Ante 3 NL - Holdem - 9 players
    Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

    BTN: 75 BB (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 11.54, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 63)
    SB: 75 BB
    BB: 75 BB
    UTG: 75 BB (VPIP: 19.44, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 37)
    UTG+1: 75 BB (VPIP: 33.82, PFR: 15.38, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 68)
    MP: 75 BB
    MP+1: 75 BB (VPIP: 19.97, PFR: 15.54, 3Bet Preflop: 5.61, Hands: 631)
    Hero (MP+2): 75 BB
    CO: 75 BB (VPIP: 36.36, PFR: 7.84, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 55)

    9 players post ante of 0 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

    Pre Flop: (pot: 2.85 BB) Hero has 8:heart: A:club:

    fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.2 BB, CO calls 2.2 BB, BTN calls 2.2 BB, SB calls 1.7 BB, fold

    Flop: (11.15 BB, 4 players) 7:club: K:heart: 8:club:
    SB bets 5.8 BB, fold, CO calls 5.8 BB, fold

    hey guys, i want to discuss my thought process just to know your opinion.I open x2.2 (standard open stngo)
    and some flats and somes limp.

    So they can have anything. At the flop Tcl donks and i need 25% (2.9:1)to call. I have medium pair and a backdoor flush. So with some calculations with equilab i think i have 50% to already have the best hand or to make better hand on later streets. So its an easy call or i have to think it different.(more players to act, turbo tournament, early stages and other reasons)

    Thanks
     
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  2. silakka

    silakka New Member

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    ppl usually dont donk sb 4way without some sort of strong hand and there is still 2ppl behind us to act so its fine to fold there and save chips for later. usually dont want to put too many blinds in early levels or build up pots without lots of eq and 4 way we need more than mid pair + bdfd.

    u said u might have best hand, but what turns u are able to continue? any card other than club, 8 or A we are forced to fold. also if A hits turn, are we going to get any value?
     
  3. hayatekirino

    hayatekirino Member

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    So you say that our outs 3Aces,2-8eights and 10 clubs are not many enough; we have maybe smtng 50% to hit a card. I think he can have an A on his range with a small kicker worst than 8 and he will pay us if an A comes.He hasn't AK,AQ for sure. (I think and a raise bluff of 70% IF we were HU)
    Thanks for your reply.
     
  4. silakka

    silakka New Member

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    we dont have 50%, not even close. we miss turn 70% of the time. also there is those 2ppl still behind who might raise, call, jam and we lose almost 10% of our stack just right there. what A with smaller kicker sb would ever donk 4way pot?
     
  5. hayatekirino

    hayatekirino Member

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    I dont worry so much about the kicker i think because i have the 8 so if an A comes i will have two pairs.So if villain has Q,J,T as kicker not so bad i think. 15 outs to make a better hand.Why 70%; I agree about the people behind.
     
  6. silakka

    silakka New Member

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    so if u hit A 2 pair, what do u think they will call your valuebet with? T-Qhi? i dont think so.

    edit... read bit wrong there but i dont think anyone ever donks sb with AT-AQ and since we have Ac they cant have Axcc which would make some sense.

    15outs to make better hand yes, 15x 2ish = 30% right? since we dont ever get into river without hitting turn so we dont count river %.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    I would open raise to 3BB from early and mid position. Its 9handed with antes and pretty deep stacks so you want to make it bigger to protect your range and get value.

    If we face this flop donk bet in HU or 3way pot its mandatory call pretty much. In 4way pot it starts to get lot thinner. SB often has strong Kx or set or sometimes possibly some combo draw. If he has KQ and A comes on turn it will likely scare him so it can be tricky to get value from those Kx.

    Villain is very unlikely to donk bet any Ax on this spot. Unless he somehow didnt 3bet with AK and obviously he cannot have nut flush draw.

    So as silakka said SB range tends to be really strong and you also have two players behind so folding would be best on flop. Backdoor flush draw doesnt help that much.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. hayatekirino

    hayatekirino Member

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    Ok guys.Thanks both very much.I fold in reality and had some doubts.Now i haven't.

    "If we face this flop donk bet in HU or 3way pot its mandatory call pretty much."- I am interested about this situation much more Ghaleon.thats why i wrote "(I think and a raise bluff of 70% IF we were HU)".Is this too aggro;
     
  9. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    If this was HU pot SB could have lot wider range. So I would call and assume my hand to be best often enough. If turn comes club you can consider turning hand into bluff with nut outs available depending of action. Problem in this 4way pot is that its harder to get villain stronger range to fold if you decide to represent made flush at some point.
     
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