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  2. Next coaching sessions on Twitch: Ghaleon SNG Tuesday 11.12 at 20 CET -

Moving the focus

Discussion in 'Blogs and projects' started by Ghaleon, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Hi,

    Lets say something about myself at first. I am close to 30 years old guy from Finland. I have played online poker for 7 years or so. Last 2.5 years professionally. Before that worked couple years in IT sector. In 2012 I went first time for supernova and 2013 aimed for 300k VPP. In the end managed to hit 400k so it went pretty nicely.

    So logical goal for this year was to aim for SNE (1M VPP). Playing mainly 6man, 9man, Fifty50 and 18man games. Mostly as turbo speed, but some normal speed as well. Buyin are between 30$ and 200$ at this point. Probably not aiming higher games this year unless it becomes mandatory for VPP generation at some point. Below is half year report I have wrote earlier:

    Year 2014, The First Half

    So it's half point of the year now. My original idea was to have 600k VPP at this point. Well reality is quite far from it as I now have around 400k VPP. But still it could be worse and I don't see this situation bad spot to start second half :)

    Some data:

    Games: 22025
    Played: 622 hours
    EV prerb: 2896$
    Prerb: -5631$
    Postrb: 35491$
    Bonuses: Couple k$ from BoP bonuses, no specific info.
    $/h: Around 60$/h

    So roughly estimated I have played around 3650 games per month which is decent. But there is still lot of space to improve. These days I can play with normal day (two sessions) quite easily 250-300 games per day. So if assuming e.g. 20 of such days in month it will already sum into 5k+ games month. So it just requires motivation to grind and "only sky is the limit" ;)

    From results side I cannot be very happy, but still it has went decently. Around 40€ per hour (accounting hours outside of tables) is still pretty nice hourly salary. Of course with bit better run and more active grinding it could be much higher also, but at least there is space to improve.

    So next the mandatory giraffe (red is EV, green is prerb results and yellow is postrb results):



    So as it can be seen my results has been quite breakeven (prerb wise) for the year. Some serious digging and upswings here and there. Well reality is that it's relatively tough to find lot of edge versus players in these games when playing 30 tables and four different structures. Still if I can achieve SNE and keep my prerb results close to breakeven I am going to be happy results wise :)

    So how does it look for second half of the year? I need 600k VPP more. Personally I have always had bad habit to leave things for the last moment. E.g. in school previous evening was good to study for exam and if some report had to be made in 3 weeks it could clearly be done tomorrow.

    Now the clear fact is that I need to make 100k per month. So I will target more than 100k for July. Though I have planned that before in this year already now it starts be mandatory. This project work cannot be left into last moment so this month I am going to do it for real, dammit!

    Month so far: 20045 VPP
     

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  2. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: SNE hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Here is one example of spot where I sometimes slowplay big hand. It's 9man in 3 handed so already in the money. Obviously very different situation compared to one in Aarnimetsa coaching today where stacks were very short.

    This was decent spot even though BU was reggy looking, but I didn't have much history. Only like 350 hands in 3-4 handed. Also more importantly BB was big fish with 31/10 (vpip/pfr) and he had been also aggressive postflop and easily overplaying hands like top pair no kicker or some medium pair or weak draws. So even if I thought that BU might be suspicious of my call I definitely wanted to have BB in the pot.

    Reason why I don't see value to have that much calling range here are the relatively short stacks and my position. It quite easily ends up postflop in situation where I am going to be "sandwiched" so that if BU cbets I have to worry about villain behind me as well. Though of course for flop like this BU is unlikely going for cbet without relatively good hit. But fact is that postflop any medium strength hand tend to get in nasty situation unless hitting hard. So if I have hand like KJo, JTs, A8s, 98s I like much more to 3bet shove and use good amount of fold equity for my advantage. BU here had around 30% BU steal and with BB passive (preflop) weak player it should be reason for him to open quite wide range and try to play against him from position. So because of BB I think BU will tend to have more raise-fold range even if he thinks me of light 3bet type villain.

    Might be interesting area to talk more. Would you tend to have flatting range here? What if we were 20bb deep? Would you flat hand like A8s or 3bet-fold or 3bet-call it? Or maybe just shove?

    Poker Stars, $56.40 Buy-in (150/300 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 3 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    Hero (SB): 4,640 (15.5 bb)
    BB: 5,385 (18 bb)
    BTN: 3,475 (11.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A[​IMG] A[​IMG]
    BTN raises to 600, Hero calls 450, BB calls 300

    Flop: (1,875) 9[​IMG] T[​IMG] 6[​IMG] (3 players)
    Hero checks, BB bets 900, BTN raises to 2,850 and is all-in, Hero raises to 4,015 and is all-in, BB folds

    Turn: (8,475) 3[​IMG] (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (8,475) K[​IMG] (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Results: 8,475 pot
    Final Board: 9[​IMG] T[​IMG] 6[​IMG] 3[​IMG] K[​IMG]
    Hero showed A[​IMG] A[​IMG] and won 8,475 (5,000 net)
    BB mucked and lost (-1,525 net)
    BTN showed Q[​IMG] T[​IMG] and lost (-3,475 net)
     
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  3. mrmaginis

    mrmaginis New Member

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    Re: SNE hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    :tup: v.intersting blog nice work keep it up
     
  4. Aarnimetsa

    Aarnimetsa Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    I'd think it's a shame this hand history didn't gather any more discussion.

    I don't think that with general stack sizes so shallow you can do much else with 3-betting than shove. Basically we're close to 12BB deep effectively here (I'd think cold 4-bets are pretty unlikely). I'd think that in this spot you shouldn't have that much flatting range here, except in special situations where reads allow. I would have a decent sized flatting range if the situation would be SB vs. BB with a small sizing even with stacks this low. Not having position makes having profitable flatting range here hard.
     
  5. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Here is hand where BU reg goes for nonallin play in 6max bubble, which is good from his side. Thing I would question in his line is the sizing. Is it optimal to go for such big sizing?

    From my side AQo is bottom of my range, but I would say its going to be profitable. For SB it would be best to just flat with his whole range, because if I then shove BU is more likely going to call and for SB its always best if BU comes into pot as well.

    PS: Hmm also from my range. It might be good to go for quite bit wider, because If we assume BU to fold decent amount of time then we get huge amount of dead chips in the pot. Might be that I am actually way too tight in this spot because of that. Of course SB range is going to be strong, but with BU nonallin play maybe even hand like QJs might be ok... Going to analyze this bit more later :)

    Poker Stars, $55.68 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 3 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 2,349 (11.7 bb)
    Hero (BB): 4,820 (24.1 bb)
    BTN: 1,831 (9.2 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[​IMG] A[​IMG]
    BTN raises to 1,800, SB raises to 2,324 and is all-in, Hero raises to 3,924, BTN folds

    Flop: (6,523) A[​IMG] 7[​IMG] 6[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    Turn: (6,523) 5[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: (6,523) 6[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Results: 6,523 pot
    Final Board: A[​IMG] 7[​IMG] 6[​IMG] 5[​IMG] 6[​IMG]
    SB showed 8[​IMG] 8[​IMG] and lost (-2,349 net)
    Hero showed Q[​IMG] A[​IMG] and won 6,523 (4,174 net)
     
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  6. Aarnimetsa

    Aarnimetsa Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    I'd think that even though it will get him marginally less folds, probably miniraise is optimal because his equity will be way better if he needs to fold. When he has invested 1800 chips, it will be closer can he ever fold here. Practically with a minraise he can call less here, but he would probably need to call somewhere around 5-6% of his top range here even after you two are all in because of his preflop sizing. With a minraise he can profitably fold anything but aces when you are both all-in.

    I'll also agree that it's a huge mistake for SB to shove here, because he gives BTN a chance to fold.

    I'd agree with your thoughts that AQo is going to be way too tight here as a big stack. There's a good probability that this will be a huge headsup pot with a lot of dead money in. With two shoves, I'd think AQo would be bottom of the range, when it's going to be guaranteed 3-way and pretty much guaranteed increase of our equity either by elimination or getting a close to eliminated stack with us.
     
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  7. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Kind of a interesting hand I had couple days ago in 60$ 18mans 4 handed. SB villain is strong reg. What you think of his play?

    I will give my opinion after few days (after PokeriMania meeting) :)

    Poker Stars, $55.56 Buy-in (150/300 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 4 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 11,780 (39.3 bb)
    Hero (BB): 7,969 (26.6 bb)
    CO: 5,850 (19.5 bb)
    BTN: 1,401 (4.7 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with A[​IMG] A[​IMG]
    2 folds, SB raises to 11,755 and is all-in, Hero calls 7,644 and is all-in

    Flop: (15,988) T[​IMG] 9[​IMG] T[​IMG] (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    Turn: (15,988) A[​IMG] (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (15,988) 8[​IMG] (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Results: 15,988 pot
    Final Board: T[​IMG] 9[​IMG] T[​IMG] A[​IMG] 8[​IMG]
    SB showed 2[​IMG] 8[​IMG] and lost (-7,969 net)
    Hero showed A[​IMG] A[​IMG] and won 15,988 (8,019 net)
     
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  8. skel35

    skel35 Member

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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    I like his shove.
    Shoving with all the hands is better than folding, so the question is whether to put 82o in raising or shoving range (or limping but I don't think he has one here).
    Initial idea seems to have raising range, which consists of monsters and all of the worst hands, but I believe this isn't the most profitable way to play. Being 26bb deep you can easily flat his raise with a decent range of hands that play good postflop, and you're gonna play in position. I think it makes raising with the worst hands less profitable. I would probably raise with hands that play ok postflop and fold to 3bet (98s, JTo), together with monster hands that would call the 3bet, and shove all the weak hands, and other hands that don't play good postflop.
    That's only my thought process, and you have a lot more experience, so I'm waiting to hear your opinion!
     
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  9. xxIxx

    xxIxx Moderator
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    With such top heavy prize structure I would just minraise fold or just plain fold due to the fact that its 26bb deep and like skel said hero can call with wide range here. Why risk tournament life with utter shite hand when there is a 5bb stack on the table. Question remains if he would minraise here would hero 3bet or trap with Rockets?
     
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  10. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Ok meet is over and back into usual stuff. It was definitely +EV trip :)

    Maybe some summary of it will come here for non-Finnish users as well.

    Shoving might be better than folding, but in my way of thinking its not that black and white. I have never wanted to make very deep stack open shove plays if situation is marginal. If I remember right open shove with 82o was around +0.25% (versus TT+ calling range), which is decent profit. Still I would question whatever minraise or open fold could be better. Because when hero do have the hand to call it will be huge disaster for SB and it will mean huge loss in FGS value for future hands for SB. Of course he does take the smallish pot very often and even though it does not make much of difference in stack setup it has some value.

    Also I would assume minraise is still profitable versus most as in this situation at least I dont tend to defend that often. Mostly because if SB is aggro he can still put lot of ICM pressure on me. For that reason I actually prefer to raise small with most of my close to ATC range. Now of course BB can abuse that my shoving. But in my experience not that many want to take that line and mostly you get folds for reason I mentioned earlier. Sometimes BB call or 3bet small. Now depending of BB its viable to shove very wide over that small 3bet. Obviously because range for 3bet-call should be very tight, QQ+ or so. Maybe just KK+. This comes into question xxIxx made:

    For reason I mentioned above I would never slowplay AA. Its one of few hands you can balance small 3bet range. How much to include 3bet bluffs is another question. Also problem with slowplaying versus aggro opponent is still ICM side. E.g. flop comes 3 :heart: 5 :heart: 9 :c:, hero has A :heart: A :d:. Pot is (1300). Villain bets 700, hero call. Turn is T :heart: (2700), villain bets 1400, hero call. River is Q :d: (5500), villain shoves and what will hero do? Around pot behind. Well basically this is one of best hands you will have in these spots so hero should be calling. But personally I would not be jumping out of joy. Villain can still have many value hands that beat our one pair hand. If SB is very aggro reg in these spots he can be value shoving any 2pair or better for value for balancing his air. Possibly some top pair good kicker hands hero beats also. Of course if villain bluffs ATC 3 streets it will be easy easy call.

    As I already mentioned I personally prefer to play by raising normally with most of my range and perhaps folding bottom 10% or so depending of opponent. If BB villain is likely to defend wide here then going for shove based line might be best. But its tough to evaluate EV of this line overall. But I do agree that having more playable hands in polarized minraise range would be better. Mostly because I doubt if it would affect value of shoving range that much even if it does not include that much of those playable hands. Value of shove will be heavily dependent of fold equity.

    Not saying that my line would be definitely better than shoving most hands or that shoving all hands would be bad. But still making very deep stack shoves with somewhat small EV profit should be avoided versus most villains imo. Anyway would be nice to hear some further conversation about this.
     
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  11. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Still aiming for.SNE.this year. Have recently decided to stay with 26 tabling as I have feeling I tend to lose bit of control too often with 30+ tables.

    This month has been gruel run wise. Was around -160 bin in prerb profits at one point and in actual $ it was even more with some extra bad run in bigger games. Have got pretty used in 1k+ daily swings, but still looking graph that goes to -10k$+ in prerb doesn't feel too great. But that's why I keep sizable bankroll.

    After this month I will likely have more than 400k VPP points to be made in last 3 months. So it will demand heavy grinding, but hopefully I have enough physical and mental strength for this.

    One option is to take more games from 200-300$ bin games and throw table selection out of window. But that means taking on very tough tables where my expected EV with big table amounts is likely quite bit on minus prerb and not necessarily that much on plus side with rakeback either. Meaning even more variance.
     
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  12. skel35

    skel35 Member

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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    How many hours a day do you plan to play? How many days a month?
    Wouldn't it be easier to choose 1-2 formats for SNE instead of playing 4 different formats? Or it would be impossible due to low traffic?
    Best of luck on achieving SNE!
     
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  13. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Slowly clawing my way back from the hole :)
     

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  14. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Well with aim to hit 6k VPP days on average it would take 25 playing days per month to hit 150k VPP. I am planning to set that as my goal for October and November. It will be tough though. Going to test with next session if there is enough tables opening when I drop 30$ games from my set. I doubt that volume would be good enough with any 1 format. Fifty50 and 6max could be option.
     
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  15. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    100$ 18man 3 handed with theme, "pocket rockets sucks" ;)

    BB reg decided to get creative.

    Poker Stars, $92.80 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 3 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    Hero (SB): 10,010 (16.7 bb)
    BB: 10,402 (17.3 bb)
    BTN: 6,588 (11 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with A[​IMG] A[​IMG]
    BTN folds, Hero raises to 1,200, BB raises to 2,700, Hero calls 1,500

    Flop: (5,550) A[​IMG] 7[​IMG] 2[​IMG] (2 players)
    Hero checks, BB bets 1,800, Hero calls 1,800

    Turn: (9,150) K[​IMG] (2 players)
    Hero checks, BB bets 5,852 and is all-in, Hero calls 5,460 and is all-in

    River: (20,070) J[​IMG] (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Results: 20,070 pot
    Final Board: A[​IMG] 7[​IMG] 2[​IMG] K[​IMG] J[​IMG]
    Hero showed A[​IMG] A[​IMG] and lost (-10,010 net)
    BB showed 9[​IMG] 3[​IMG] and won 20,070 (10,060 net)
     
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  16. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Here is one hand also from last session. How would you guys evaluate lines used in this hand (by hero and villain)?

    Villain is reg in these 30$ 6max games and probably some lower ones. Stats filtered to 3-4 handed: 38/34/17.6(3bet)/64(fold BB to steal), 490 hands. Villain likely has pretty loose reads on hero.

    Poker Stars, $27.84 Buy-in (100/200 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 3 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    Hero (SB): 2,840 (14.2 bb)
    BB: 2,483 (12.4 bb)
    BTN: 3,677 (18.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with J[​IMG] J[​IMG]
    BTN folds, Hero raises to 400, BB calls 200

    Flop: (800) 5[​IMG] A[​IMG] 5[​IMG] (2 players)
    Hero bets 320, BB calls 320

    Turn: (1,440) 2[​IMG] (2 players)
    Hero checks, BB bets 400, Hero calls 400

    River: (2,240) J[​IMG] (2 players)
    Hero checks, BB checks

    Results: 2,240 pot
    Final Board: 5[​IMG] A[​IMG] 5[​IMG] 2[​IMG] J[​IMG]
    Hero showed J[​IMG] J[​IMG] and won 2,240 (1,120 net)
    BB mucked 8[​IMG] 9[​IMG] and lost (-1,120 net)
     
  17. Aarnimetsa

    Aarnimetsa Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    I don't like the bet on the flop that much. I don't think there is too many worse cards for us and we'll get better equity if we'll let the opponent bet. Likely our opponent has not hit an ace high paired rainbow board at all after calling us and I don't think a reg will spew enough that we could bet-call here. On the turn, check-calling makes sense. On the river I like it, I'd think you'll get more chips on average by checking here than by betting yourself.

    Then going on the spoiler and on the opponent's hand. I'd say that makes somewhat sense and would be about what I'd expect to see. If he is calling a lot, he will know that opponents will probably cbet a lot and if they stop on the turn, he'll get the pots on the turn majority of the time cheaply. So it is a reasonable counterstrategy to opponents raising SB with almost ATC. Checking behind the river is probably good when you factor in ICM and how often opponent would give up in the river if there were no draws on the turn and opponent check called.
     
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  18. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    I agree that flop is most questionable street in this hand. Thing is that if I check flop its much more often mark of showdown value in this spot than cbetting is. In general that is. Unless we think villain think this way. Of course if villain thinks checking is weakness meaning some air or at max K high/pocket pair and he is aggro he might go for multiple street bluff. So its tough to say if cbetting is good or not.

    But because this sort of spot is a "automatic cbet" then I personally prefer to make that cbet versus reggy player. For my opening range its not ATC in this particular spot. This sort of villain is too likely to defend imo.

    His preflop defend is fine. 89o does offer decent playability though that would be bottom of my defense range. But to me flop is clear fold. Of course you don't want to play pure fit or fold when defending this sort of spot, but it would not hurt to have some ok outs as well. Here if villain hits his 8 or 9 he don't really know where he is in the hand. Also to float it would be nice to be able to represent something. He is very unlikely to have Ax beside AA and 5x is also weakly in his preflop flat range (at least should be imo) so what I am afraid off? Unlikely 5x or slow played monster. From hand combination view compared to his whole range those are obviously very minor part as QQ+ is likely more often shoving preflop.

    It's like some time ago in different hand analyze someone commented that "if I dont float this spot then I should not defend it at all". Hand in question was some JT and flop came like 335r or something. But this is just pure bu*****t. Even if you are making loose defends does not mean that you would have to make fancy plays in spots where you have hard time to represent anything.

    So I agree that villain float is ok strategy versus ABC opponent, but versus decent regs is pretty often same as taking that 10€ bill and burning it. His preflop flat range and this board could not be any further from each other :D That said if I am personally playing that 30 tables its reasonable possibility that I just miss spot itself and his play goes through. Like if I do have air and not strong hand like JJ. But I would say very often best play with air would be to still check-raise turn as his range is so so air heavy.
     
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  19. YOULOSTBRO

    YOULOSTBRO Well-Known Member

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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    if villain tends to float / bluff-raise often there are a lot of merits to cbetting.

    A55r isn't a flop i'd expect it to happen too much tho since given pre-flop villain has very fex Ax hands? (not sure how ICM works in this spot)
     
  20. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    I think good side of cbetting is also that if villain has some Kx or decent Qx type he is likely to call flop for hand showdown value itself and check back in turn if checked. Might hero call some K high also versus bet-bet-bet line. I think the way quite many ok regs act versus check in this spot is to check behind with pretty much everything. Decent reg knows he cannot represent much so its tough to get hand like KT to fold and they are unlikely to spew by floating or bluff raising. But then question comes could it be better to go for bet-bet-bet line than flop checking? Depends of course how hero call happy opponent is. But I think quite many in such situation quite easily think that hero value range for three barreling is just Ax and it could be a surprise if value range is wider. Heh gets kind of funny to go for 3barrel value with KT+ :)

    By checking we would hope for villain to hit something and then try to go for one or two street value. But I think problem here comes that at least for me checking seems more of showdown value. So even if villain does hit like a J with JT he might not give two streets of value.

    And for YLB question about villain having Ax. I would say that he never have Ax beside sometimes slowplayed AA. If effective stacks would be closer to 15-20bb area then I would not discount Ax that heavily from his flatting range. But with 12bb I have very hard time to see aggro reg flatting Ax.
     
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  21. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Fishy fellow decided to do nice induce play in 18man :)

    Poker Stars, $27.78 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 3 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 4,250 (7.1 bb)
    Hero (BB): 9,690 (16.2 bb)
    BTN: 13,060 (21.8 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with T[​IMG] A[​IMG]
    BTN raises to 1,200, SB folds, Hero raises to 9,640 and is all-in, BTN calls 8,440

    Flop: (19,730) 6[​IMG] 2[​IMG] 7[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    Turn: (19,730) K[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: (19,730) 9[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Results: 19,730 pot
    Final Board: 6[​IMG] 2[​IMG] 7[​IMG] K[​IMG] 9[​IMG]
    Hero showed T[​IMG] A[​IMG] and won 19,730 (10,040 net)
    BTN showed T[​IMG] J[​IMG] and lost (-9,690 net)

    Funny thing is that if he had open shoved I would have folded my ATs as villain would have to shove very wide for call to be profitable. Even with capped range.
     
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  22. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Here is nice hand to show how to not play TT. Only thing villain does well in this hand is 3betting preflop. Sizing is obviously extremely bad. He can go for nonallin 3bet, but I would recommend using at least to 800 sizing. My standard would be to 900. Now he gives extremely good pot odds for me to call from position.

    In flop he should really ask if cbetting makes sense or not. Some Tx could call or some A9 if I dont give respect to his cbet at all. With turn shove he mostly forces weaker hands to fold and better ones to call. Well If I have some J8 type of hand I could find a fold, but with any better I would call. Its not great spot to call with JT, but having 8 likely alive outs with some showdown value makes me to lean for call.

    Poker Stars, $27.84 Buy-in (100/200 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    BB: 3,757 (18.8 bb)
    Hero (SB): 5,243 (26.2 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with T[​IMG] J[​IMG]
    Hero raises to 400, BB raises to 600, Hero calls 200

    Flop: (1,200) J[​IMG] Q[​IMG] 9[​IMG] (2 players)
    BB bets 600, Hero calls 600

    Turn: (2,400) 3[​IMG] (2 players)
    BB bets 2,557 and is all-in, Hero calls 2,557

    River: (7,514) 4[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Results: 7,514 pot
    Final Board: J[​IMG] Q[​IMG] 9[​IMG] 3[​IMG] 4[​IMG]
    BB showed T[​IMG] T[​IMG] and lost (-3,757 net)
    Hero showed T[​IMG] J[​IMG] and won 7,514 (3,757 net)
     
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  23. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Had quite funny hand in previous session. Both villains are regs. Usually I don't like to 3bet AQ in such spot, but here UTG using such small raise and one call. So if I call here it will easily end up in 4-5 way pot. Preflop sizing could have been little bit higher also like to 160. No need for higher than that from position.

    Anyway both regs call. Flop comes Q87o, but I decide to checkback as I doubt I could get more than one street of value most of time. Turn is blank and UTG leads and MP calls. I think they often has some sort of hand. It might be that UTG sometimes tries to stab the pot with some air, but when MP calls he has at least TT type of hand. Maybe sometimes T9s. Well I thought that folding would be too weak as I also underrep my hand with flop check. So call is only option imo.

    River go checked to me and once again I ask from myself: "Is there value to bet?" I think only hands I might get value are KQ, QJs. Decided to just check and take safe line. Showdown was quite funny looking. I mean if you would put some recreational sort of players into flop with these hands it would very likely end up in 3way allin :D

    PS: I were planning to fold if either of them had bet river.

    Poker Stars, $55.68 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 1,480 (74 bb)
    BB: 1,168 (58.4 bb)
    UTG: 1,460 (73 bb)
    MP: 1,490 (74.5 bb)
    CO: 1,932 (96.6 bb)
    Hero (BTN): 1,470 (73.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with A[​IMG] Q[​IMG]
    UTG raises to 45, MP calls 45, CO folds, Hero raises to 140, 2 folds, UTG calls 95, MP calls 95

    Flop: (450) Q[​IMG] 8[​IMG] 7[​IMG] (3 players)
    UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks

    Turn: (450) 4[​IMG] (3 players)
    UTG bets 280, MP calls 280, Hero calls 280

    River: (1,290) 9[​IMG] (3 players)
    UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks

    Results: 1,290 pot
    Final Board: Q[​IMG] 8[​IMG] 7[​IMG] 4[​IMG] 9[​IMG]
    UTG showed Q[​IMG] A[​IMG] and lost (-420 net)
    MP showed K[​IMG] K[​IMG] and won 1,290 (870 net)
    Hero mucked A[​IMG] Q[​IMG] and lost (-420 net)
     
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  24. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    One of hands where I might have spewed a bit. Though I think line is reasonable to go with some portion of time. BB is aggro reg who likes to 3bet decently often in these sort of spots. Wont have time to go through analyzing now as baby is starting to sleep in this room. But if someone wants to tackle this feel free to do so :)

    Points of interest in this hand for me are:
    -Is 4bet shoving K7s reasonable and what range would be ok for it?
    - Could this hand be defended by flatting? Plus and cons of passive defend?
    - How is villain line? Is it really most optimal way to play his hand or could there be more profitable ways? Even if there was more profitable lines is having AKo in 3bet-call range still best from balancing view?

    PS: Also one possibility could be sort of clickback 4bet which is probably really good if I get big enough part of his rake to fold. From those hands that are not planning to call versus shove.

    Poker Stars, $27.78 Buy-in (100/200 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 4 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 2,728 (13.6 bb)
    BB: 4,758 (23.8 bb)
    CO: 1,460 (7.3 bb)
    Hero (BTN): 4,554 (22.8 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with K[​IMG] 7[​IMG]
    CO folds, Hero raises to 400, SB folds, BB raises to 850, Hero raises to 4,529 and is all-in, BB calls 3,679

    Flop: (9,258) K[​IMG] 6[​IMG] J[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    Turn: (9,258) J[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: (9,258) A[​IMG] (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Results: 9,258 pot
    Final Board: K[​IMG] 6[​IMG] J[​IMG] J[​IMG] A[​IMG]
    BB showed K[​IMG] A[​IMG] and won 9,258 (4,704 net)
    Hero showed K[​IMG] 7[​IMG] and lost (-4,554 net)
     
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  25. Ghaleon

    Ghaleon Well-Known Member
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    Re: Supernova Elite hunt for 2014 (Turbo sng & 18man)

    Ahh had forgotten previous hand. Well have to check it again at some point if I get "inspired" enough :)

    Here was pretty interesting spot from 18man final table. Hand came at end of my session around 3am so I might have not been at my best overall. I did think during gameplay that call is very likely not profitable in this hand itself. Both villains that matter are regs. MP1 is likely on 30%-40% range or so and I think MP3 is likely to call bit wider than he should (e.g. 88+, AQ+, maybe AJs). So I think this was fold in vacuum when considering just this hand. But if I take this spot and win how does table situation look then? I will have around 13k, MP1 will drop into 5k and I will have medium staks on my left and one very small stack on my right. So I though that by making likely -EV call here it could be very good in FGS. Also if I fold and MP1 wins then I will be the one with hands completely tightened as there will be mega stack right next to me.

    Now in FGS (1) JJ overcall will be extremely bad with default ranges and only KK+ would be good. But if I alter UTG to shove with 35% and MP3 calling with 5.9%, 88+ AJs+ AQo+ then JJ will show -2.39%. Which is still very bad and this call is probably clear mistake even with huge FGS value. But QQ would show -0.27% and I think taking it would be ok.

    Now I am not that sure if this logic for taking -ev call is good, but in this particular stack distribution it created decent opportunity at least. Still JJ was probably too lose, but I would still go with QQ+ and not just KK+.

    Poker Stars, $55.56 Buy-in (400/800 blinds, 50 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 1,340 (1.7 bb)
    Hero (BB): 4,295 (5.4 bb)
    MP1: 9,378 (11.7 bb)
    MP2: 3,753 (4.7 bb)
    MP3: 5,043 (6.3 bb)
    CO: 280 (0.4 bb)
    BTN: 2,911 (3.6 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with J[​IMG] J[​IMG]
    MP1 raises to 9,328 and is all-in, MP2 folds, MP3 calls 4,993 and is all-in, CO calls 230 and is all-in, 2 folds, Hero calls 3,445 and is all-in

    Flop: (15,211) Q[​IMG] 8[​IMG] 2[​IMG] (4 players, 4 are all-in)
    Turn: (15,211) 4[​IMG] (4 players, 4 are all-in)
    River: (15,211) 3[​IMG] (4 players, 4 are all-in)

    Results: 15,211 pot
    Final Board: Q[​IMG] 8[​IMG] 2[​IMG] 4[​IMG] 3[​IMG]
    Hero showed J[​IMG] J[​IMG] and won 13,715 (9,420 net)
    MP1 showed 5[​IMG] 5[​IMG] and won 1,496 (-3,547 net)
    MP3 showed K[​IMG] A[​IMG] and lost (-5,043 net)
    CO showed A[​IMG] 7[​IMG] and lost (-280 net)
     
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