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PLO

Discussion in 'Blogs and projects' started by Warp, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    I'll start a thread about the infamous Pee EL Oh.

    Some BBV, thoughts, progress, tilt venting (while I write here, I can't donk the roll away).

    Since I play on Unibet without HH I'll post screencaps, today of some equity - where I was surprised how little I was ahead when the money went in on flop.
    The 33 hand was from a table where only opponent and I played HU for a while, the other was 6max. Each was 3bet-call. And I thought I was MILES ahead when the money went in, just to find that I was some 60-40.

    and ofc I lost both

    Setmining is a tricky thing in PLO, haven't quite figured it out yet.
     

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  2. TheChampion

    TheChampion Member

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  3. hungrycat

    hungrycat Member

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    Interesting part of PLO it is!
    Don"t blame yourself when 60/40 no big deal!
    If you have a 10% overhead on a flip all day long,the money will com your way :)
    I had worse hands ,when overseted your totally screwed,and that's not the case.
    I loose hands with 80% equity and win sometimes almost drawing dead,some luck is still involved in this game.
    Keep focus on hands that matters the most,when you stack off in a 3b pot and having a flip when needed 30% for SPR think you will do quite well against their ranges.
    Those other hands where a brain fart messed up your mind,or if you start to play badly because you lost almost any hand with the best equity are the hands you have to seek for IMHO.
    I find it quite hard to gain chips and keep them,suddenly I do not play an A,B or C game and stick in those chips to see then disappear to an other side of the table.......after the session I don't understand why I did it,total mystery why I had a brain fart that way!

    If it gets you by the balls than it's time to take a break from poker I guess,but I think that you better take some coaching to keep it all on track!
    If the coach sees leaks than there is a way to solve them,start making money in the long run will be appreciated.
    GL

    Hungrycat
     
  4. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    That shit doesn't bother me. If it would bother me, I'd probably play on stakes I can't afford.
    Attached: 250BB pot where he raised me on flop.
    And he gets runner-runner flush.

    I posted those hands to show that even if I don't get set-over-setted I'm not a huge favourite. I will stop playing those low pocket pairs I think.
     

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  5. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    the bad beat of today features a 240BB stack, money goes in on flop (although there was a 4bet pot, so some money was already in pre)

    Luckily for me there was only little rake, so when I win it back there is no fucking 10% tax on my winnings (aka 5% Stars rake)

    and just as I type this, pic2 happens (pre-allin, 71.5-28.5), I throw some words at the screen - and my ace falls on turn
     

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    #5 Warp, Jan 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  6. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    How big is your CBet/DonkBet Percentage on Flop?
    I feel like mine is ~95%

    What are your experiences on the micros? Mine is: very few opponents adapt, most are folding again and again and again and over again.
     
  7. Kyyberi

    Kyyberi Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Poker Coach Moderator

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    In HU pots you can cbet a lot as most of the players are folding a lot. In my mind unless you have a good reason to check instead of cbet, you should always cbet in hu pots.
     
  8. hungrycat

    hungrycat Member

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    must Cbet more than I do now! Cbet.png
     
  9. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    Yeah, that nails it: The mindset isn't "find reasons to cbet", but rather "find reasons NOT to cbet".


    That is a damn impressive graph.
     
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  10. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    and the bad beats of the day:
    Hand 1 he gets in 25BB pre flop, and calls my shove on flop for the other 25.
    well played

    Hand 2: 340BB pot, 4bet pre, money goes in on flop. GRAAAAH

    edit:
    Hand 3: 400BB 3-way, 4bet-pre, same table like Hand 2
    Guess who flopped the 7 and held up :3
     

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    #10 Warp, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  11. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    yesterday I dropped 4 stacks and went immediatel to bed, this morning it continues
    Attached: Flopped the world, lost it.


    lesson learnt: even if you have the flush draw with rags it's a good thing, because you take away the outs from a higher flush draw, making your straight hold up more often

    2nd pic:
    raise, reraise on flop, and I get it in with my wrap.
    lesson learnt: don't be afraid to gamble, or else you are playing too high stakes (lost obv).


    I had been bluffing earlier for 50BB into a 100BB pot when the board paired. Maybe 75BB would have been better. He called me down with a bad ace (aces up). And I had not made it 75BB, because it was higher stakes that I usually play. Not scared money, but maybe inhibited money. lesson learnt: don't be afraid
     

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    #11 Warp, Jan 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
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  12. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    pre-allin, lost

    I am really curious how I'm running. I'd really like some stats.
     

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  13. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    do not bluff

    pre: 4bet into family pot to 14BB, flop gets checked around, turn I bet half pot, SB calls. river i shove all-in. he calls with the 5. people are braindead.
     

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  14. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    good thing: playing short stack 50BB, you get it in good because idiots think they must call

    but I lost ofc

    edit: and also get it in with aces (and lose)
    didn't win my preflop allin with ds kings against the aces either. hmpf
     

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    #14 Warp, Jan 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  15. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    Tables are dying, only one PLO10, none PLO25 and I'm not gonna play at PLO50.

    17h session finishes with with 2x set over set in 3bet pot (we 2 were the last players standing so it was HU for a while), so I dropped a stack.
    But overall a solid session, played well for most of the time, can't complain.
    Lost some flips, won some flips.
    Got it in only a few times as a dog, sucked out even once in a 15% situation. I guess i will delete the whining posts earlier, on the other hand it might help to develop a feeling how the equities are running.
     
    #15 Warp, Jan 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  16. hungrycat

    hungrycat Member

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    I am amazed when reading Bugs PLO from scratch where we have to stack off a whole lot more than what your feeling suggests to do.
    I have seen some hands passing by where hands got crushed and we ask ourselves why is that fish getting it in with that kind of hand!
    Well did he see a video where Tom Chambers explains the reason to take those kind off hands? when you are against a low 3b percentage and when u hit a part of the flop they do have enough to stick it in,that revealed the mystery.
    If I played like Bugs suggest than I had lost more,I have folded hands in plo terms absolute calls and if I did I lost it.
    What if we only play accordingly to SPR and equity assumption in 3b potts will the winrate improve much on the micro's?
    You must have gone tru it already when playing PLO 10 an 25,does that differ from PLO2 and 5 much?
    Good to hear that the session was oke. 8-)

    GL

    hungrycat
     
  17. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    Not sure, because you pay rake on all your stack on every all-in. So you don't need 50%, but 55% in every situation on Stars.

    Thanks. It does differ a lot in the aspect that you find more totally braindead people on "the cheapest" PLO level available.
    Everybody who wants to grind it up (100$ to 1000$ etc.) is starting at the lowest level.
    Everybody who wants to learn by playing is starting at the lowest level.
    Guys who are tilting and just want to vent/flip go to the cheapest level.

    Sure you still find those players on PLO10 or maybe even PLO25, but usually you find them at the bottom of the ladder. I guess it's different on Pokerstars with PLO2 because the limit alone is tilting everybody because it's basically peanuts, so many people won't bother with the "lowest level" and still go to PLO5 or PLO10 instead.


    At PLO25 you don't survive long if you can't play the game. Dropping a couple of stacks sets you back 100$, that's already some decent money depending on where you live. I feel definitely outplayed by some players there.
    Right now I quit the table if I double up and come back with 50 or 100BB, depending on player position on the table: Smaller stack size leaves less possibilities to make mistakes.
    On PLO10 I don't usually do that.

    But it's also depending on your roll, how comfortable you feel to get the big swings (400BB pots) in, especially if it's at the top of the stakes you are playing.
     
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  18. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    Stream died for me, just after I posted my question. Just my luck, will look up kyyberis answer later on youtube.
    Meanwhile literally first hand of the day because I timed out in BB.

    PLO 10/25

    Button ($4,000)
    Hero (SB) ($1,250)
    BB ($1,130)

    Preflop: Hero ist SB mit A[​IMG], Q[​IMG], 4[​IMG], 6[​IMG]
    1 fold, Hero calls $15, BB raises to $75, Hero calls $50

    Flop: ($150) A[​IMG] 5[​IMG], 5[​IMG] (2 Spieler)
    Hero checks, BB bets $75, Hero calls $75

    Turn: ($300) 3[​IMG] (2 Spieler)
    Hero checks, BB bets $220, Hero raises to $1,180 (All-In), BB calls $960 (All-In)

    River: ($2,710.50) T[​IMG] (2 Spieler, 2 all-in)
    Hero checks, BB checks

    Gesamt Pot: $2,220

    Ergebnisse :
    Hero had A[​IMG], Q[​IMG], 4[​IMG], 6[​IMG].
    BB had 5[​IMG], 6[​IMG], 3[​IMG], 7[​IMG].


    Bright side:
    Since I don't have stats, Allin-EV, or any graphs I don't care that I got it in with 0% equity and ruin my stats.
     
  19. hungrycat

    hungrycat Member

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    OW that really sucks man...
     
  20. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    his0.jpg
    his1.jpg
    ah I figured out how to display the images immediately

    I play ShortStacked (50BB) today. Thing is if I raise people start 3betting me and I often feel that I can't call with my pocket pairs. So I have to start playing back.
    Hand #1 horribly misfired. Villain 3bet pre, I call, and on flop I get it in totally happy against his usual pot-size cbet because I'm good against any rundown, any Jack and he can't always have aces he 3bets with
    Yeah well this time he had Jacks.

    Hand #2: again he plays back and I shove it. Tough luck. But that's how it goes in the Wild Wild West.

    Hand #3: different table, villains first hand in BB. I raise UTG, get 4 callers, he reraises pot (he could do that with every rundown to boost his equity).
    But this time I suck out, straight on board for both, but 3 hearts :heart:
    el suckout.jpg
     
    #20 Warp, Jan 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  21. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    50%.jpg kings.jpg fixd plan.jpg Brrgh.
    Hand #1 33%stack is in on flop, rest on turn. He finishes me off with an Ace on River.
    Hand #2 I cannot fold on flop (I bet, he reraises) even though I was 90% sure opponent has the kings. He held up. Must I fold there? But I beat any random ace.
    Hand #3 against same player as Hand #1 - I call the flop with the plan to reraise the turn if no heart falls. Great idea.
    Always a great idea to take shots at the higher levels if there is no action on lower levels.
     
    #21 Warp, Jan 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  22. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    great. another 10 stacks dropped because everybody keeps hitting. time for bed. Poker on downswing is not fun at all.

    One of the reasons I survive it - I present the hand of the day though, clearly on tilt

    PLO 25

    Button ($1,800)
    SB ($2,450)
    Hero (BB) ($6,000)
    UTG ($1,000)

    Preflop: Hero ist BB
    1 fold, Button raises to $85, SB raises to $310, Hero calls $285, Button raises to $1,145, SB calls $835, Hero calls $835

    Flop: ($3,435) J[​IMG], 5[​IMG], 7[​IMG] (3 Spieler)
    SB checks, Hero bets $3,000, 2 folds

    Gesamt Pot: $3,435

    Ergebnisse :
    Hero had 6[​IMG], 3[​IMG], J[​IMG], 8[​IMG].
    Outcome: $3,435 returned to Hero BTN had 688 and SB 1300 left :wtf:
     
  23. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    and the first hand of the day...I lose it ofc first.jpg

    same opponent, he binks a ten on turn and holds up
    same again.jpg

    and after another stack where he hit 44 set on flop and actually HAS something I quit the table, 4 or 5 stacks down

    alright now it's getting ridiculous. 50% pre,50% on flop. turn 2, river 2
    turn 2 river 2.jpg


    oh god make it stop
    grrrr.jpg

    4bet pot
    grrrrrrrrrrr.jpg

    I don't think i won a single pot today
    I can't wait for the day where all these confrontations go my way.
     
    #23 Warp, Jan 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  24. Warp

    Warp Active Member

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    oh the humanity!!! (runner runner flush)
    pre was 50-50 btw, so calling his 3bet was fine no, no no.jpg

    setup.jpg
    and even on the setups i have 40% - but I dont win ofc

    how do you call drug prevention in space? no pot for warp. (made str8 held)
    n o pot.jpg


    minus 20 stacks, what a session, just lost aces against ace rundown because he gets the flush. well. time tozip it.
     
    #24 Warp, Jan 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  25. hungrycat

    hungrycat Member

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    today's session went well,on the last few minutes before calling it quits those happens to ruin it for a bit......awesome game :wtf:
    If I did listen to what I felt than I got rid of those in the muck asap,it tells me when the shit hitt the fan. but that has nothing to do with SPR and equity...so lol.


    Hand #1
    Poker Stars $2.00 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players - View hand 3014839
    DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

    BTN: $3.18 - VPIP: 50, PFR: 20, 3B: 0, AF: 6,0, Hands: 10
    SB: $0.85 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 12, 3B: 6, AF: 3,1, Hands: 827
    BB: $15.65 - VPIP: 65, PFR: 29, 3B: 0, AF: 1,7, Hands: 17
    UTG: $2.22 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 17, 3B: 7, AF: 3,0, Hands: 384
    MP: $1.46 - VPIP: 34, PFR: 2, 3B: 0, AF: 1,3, Hands: 122
    Hero (CO): $12.23 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 11, 3B: 2, AF: 2,4, Hands: 109275

    Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with K :spade: A :club: 3 :club: J :heart:
    UTG raises to $0.04, MP calls $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, 1 fold, SB raises to $0.14, BB calls $0.12, UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10

    Flop: ($0.60) K :diamond: 9 :club: 5 :club: (4 players)
    SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $0.58, Hero calls $0.58, SB folds, BB calls $0.58

    Turn: ($2.34) A :heart: (3 players)
    BB checks, UTG bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, BB folds

    River: ($5.34) 7 :spade: (2 players)

    Final Pot: $5.34
    UTG shows K :heart: J :diamond: T :club: K :club:
    Hero shows K :spade: A :club: 3 :club: J :heart:
    UTG wins $5.16
    (Rake: $0.18)

    Hand #2
    Poker Stars $2.00 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players - View hand 3014840
    DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

    BTN: $7.78 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 12, 3B: 6, AF: 3,1, Hands: 827
    SB: $2.08 - VPIP: 63, PFR: 38, 3B: 33, AF: 5,0, Hands: 8
    BB: $1.82 - VPIP: 32, PFR: 3, 3B: 1, AF: 1,4, Hands: 704
    Hero (UTG): $14.76 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 11, 3B: 2, AF: 2,4, Hands: 109275
    MP: $2.00 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 19, 3B: 5, AF: 3,6, Hands: 182
    CO: $2.00 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 12, 3B: 2, AF: 2,8, Hands: 155

    Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG with 6 :diamond: 4 :heart: 3 :heart: 5 :heart:
    Hero raises to $0.06, MP raises to $0.21, 2 folds, SB calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.15

    Flop: ($0.65) A :diamond: 7 :spade: 6 :heart: (3 players)
    SB bets $0.63, Hero calls $0.63, MP raises to $1.79, SB folds, Hero calls $1.16

    Turn: ($4.86) J :heart: (2 players)

    River: ($4.86) T :diamond: (2 players)

    Final Pot: $4.86
    Hero shows 6 :diamond: 4 :heart: 3 :heart: 5 :heart:
    MP shows J :club: A :heart: A :spade: T :club:
    MP wins $4.70
    (Rake: $0.16)

    View all 2 hands
     
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